l๏ кเ๒ץкคгภเ թє lค รєlթคђเ
  • Lojban
  • In Lojban About Anything
  • Archive
  • Lojban Links
    • Proposal: New soi
    • Proposal: New voi
  • Non-Lojban
    • Toaq Dzu
    • Ithkuil
    • Gua\\spi
    • 13th Root (Mental Calculation)

The x2 Rule

5/9/2013

5 Comments

 
This is strange. This is one of the most fundamental rules of the language and yet there are two competing views on it. The worst thing here is that it seems it's not even being noticed that there are two views.

The rule I'm talking about is sometimes explained as:

(1) "If the x1 is empty, the first sumti after the selbri fills the x2, not the x1."

I don't agree with the above rule if phrased like that. In my opinion, the rule is much simpler and should read as follows:

(2) "Any sumti that appears right after the selbri fills the x2 unless the x2 has already been filled explicitly."

This rule has lower precedence than the FA rule ("A place that has already been filled is skipped"). And no, FA Rule is not a rapper (like Ja Rule, get it?). Rule (2) could also be phrased as "There is an implicit {fe} right after the selbri" (which also goes well with {be} = {be fe}!).

Here is how Rule (1) and (2) differ:

mi fi do cusku ko'a

Rule 1: ko'a fills cusku4.
Rule 2: ko'a fills cusku2.

Again, it seems both these rules are currently in use, which is quite strange indeed seing that they don't go together very well. I consider rule 2 much more useful and it's also simpler because it requires no additional step that checks if the x1 is filled or not.
5 Comments
gleki link
5/23/2013 07:15:39 pm

.uasai .ie

Reply
Ilmen
8/9/2013 11:18:55 pm

mi'u .i mi pu noroi sanji lo nabmi .i .u'i mi to'e sai djuno lo du'u makau poi me lo bi'unai re javni cu se pilno mi .i ku'i .ie lo re moi cu la'a sai xauzma
no'i mi ckire do lo ka sajgau .ui

Reply
danr
11/7/2013 05:52:19 pm

au lo cmalu pinka zo'u la .jbofi'e. cu tugni do

Reply
xalbo
5/30/2014 07:21:47 am

Neither of the stated rules is correct. I don't know what made you think they were, but the rule, as stated in CLL, is even simpler: "The general rule, then, is that the selbri may occur anywhere in the bridi as long as the sumti maintain their order. The only exception (and it is an important one) is that if the selbri appears first, the x1 sumti is taken to have been omitted". (http://dag.github.io/cll/9/2/ section 9.2, right before example 2.4). So rule 1 produces the correct result for {mi fi do cusku ko'a} (ko'a in cusku4), but only by accident. Both rules 1 and 2 are incorrect for {fi do cusku ko'a}, which should also have {ko'a} in cusku4.

Reply
selpa'i link
5/30/2014 08:34:11 am

The article describes two rules that are in use, whether or not the CLL or you agree with them. Several people use rule 2 in which {mi fi do cusku lu do melbi li'u} is correct. You may disagree with the usage, but it exists, and this article was meant to make people aware of it. Furthermore it expresses my personal opinion. I *prefer* rule 2, and an opinion cannot be right or wrong.

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Archives

    December 2013
    July 2013
    June 2013
    May 2013
    July 2012
    June 2012
    May 2012

    Categories

    All
    Denpa Bu
    Le
    Lexicon
    Lojban Games
    Mnemonics
    Na
    Orthography
    Phonology
    Polysynthetic Lojban
    Proposals
    Zi'evla

    RSS Feed

Powered by Create your own unique website with customizable templates.